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PHOTO 279 - 50 Comments
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That's absolutely disgusting. I feel so lacking now.
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Nice!
But now you're gonna want a 360 with HDMI hookup! D'oh!
The Christmas hummels are a nice touch, by the way. :)
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No, I'm fine with component hookups for the 360 - I've never talked to a single person who said they thought that HDMI looks any better than component anyway. I've got the Rosstation and my DVR hooked up via HDMI and they do look great though - but no better than the 360 in component does.
One thing that is interesting is that even having a screen only 10" bigger than my last one really highlights the flaws in any signal. Even HDTV can look crappier at times! On the other hand, high def movies (as you can see my 720p bluray rip of Spidey 3 onscreen in the photo) look amazing (no pun intended).
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I have to argue the HDMI vs. the component hookups. I was originally playing my XBOX 360 on a 55'' high def tv with the component hookups. I thought the picture was pretty sweet until my XBOX died and I returned it an got the Elite.
After using the HDMI connection, the picture was so much sweeter, especially in Gears! I was so distracted from the graphics, I was forgetting to play and just checking out all the detail on the maps!
I recently purchased a new TV for the game room just for the XBOX (the old one didn't have a HDMI connection). My nephews have noticed the difference in the picture.
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Well, it's always possible that there's something wrong with your component output. But I really don't think there's any credible evidence (non-anecdotal, mind you) that HDMI provides a superior picture to component video.
I won't debate your particular situation, I'm totally willing to believe you, but I don't think that your story alone is enough to lend credibility to the idea that in general HDMI is superior (even on the 360) to component.
Anyway, I think this review alone should cancel your particular pro-HDMI experience in relation to the overall grand scheme:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/26/xbox-360-elite-vs-classic-the-test/
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I read the review. They could have just used the 720p, since that is the highest format Gears will support. The campaign is much darker than online play, and I definetly noticed a difference.
I had the three red lights on my first XBOX, thus I returned it to Costco for the Elite. I didn't actually buy it for the HDMI cable. I have had much better luck with the Elite. I have also purchased 2 XBOX's for the nephews, both have been exchanged twice due to the ring of death.
Anyhow, I went the HDMI route after Keggman and Reaper Kegman both purchased Elites and raved about the HDMI difference. Granted, Reaper dropped 10k on his TV, so it better be sweet!
Zilla any comments?
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Well, no big name games are doing full 1920x1080 resolution anyway - Halo 3 and Bioshock were both dinged in the press for not even doing a full 720 lines of resolution in their games - 1080 is quite frankly too much for a modern game to support unless they really skimp in ways that would make the game look crappy in other respects anyway. So right now, if you're hooked up in 1080 mode on your 360, it's just doing upconversion for pretty much any game you throw in.
As for your specific situation, I'd be willing to wager something was screwed up on your original Xbox, TV, or cables if the blacks looked so much different - I don't think there's any consistent reliable reports out there that that is a typical difference between the two technologies.
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If you can make your way to Halo this weekend, you, Robot Spider, and I can debate this issue in between killing some bitches. I did ask Robot last night his opinion, and he agreed that the HDMI made a big difference. Jay B plays on a 100'' projection television, and I don't think we have polled him yet.
I noticed a slight improvement on the campaign, but a huge difference in the online because the maps are brighter. I even took the time to read the tops of the sandbags on Clocktower and gaze at the stars on Fuel Depot. I thought I had a great picture before the HDMI, until I played on the HDMI.
I take my XBOX with me when I travel for work with the standard HD cables. The hotels I stay at have the HD flat screens, and I can tell a difference. The pictures seem a little fuzzier to me than normal.
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It's possible that the Xbox doesn't do component output as well as it does HDMI (though I maintain that the two technologies produce roughly equivalent theoretical fidelity for most applications), but I submit that what you and your cohorts are most likely experiencing is confirmation bias. And the general consensus from what I've read on the net just doesn't jibe with what you're saying.
Besides, comparing your picture at home to what you see on a hotel TV is hardly apples-to-apples.
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Bert - So what you're saying is that Bunky and crew are suffering from a type of cognitive bias that represents an error of inductive inference, or a form of selection bias toward confirmation of the hypothesis under study or disconfirmation of an alternative hypothesis?
Are you sure you just don't want to invest in an Elite?
I've enjoyed the Bert Vs. Bunky brand of intellectual WWF. The only thing keeping me out of the ring of discussion (besides being busy as hell at the store) is my desire to have all my ducks in order first: No one wants to receive a piledriver from Bert. So I'll try to actually hook up my Elite to my HDTV using both methods, witness the difference first-hand, enter the ring, stop the fight and call a winner.
In the meanwhile... continue on fighters! *Ding!*
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I can't believe you've generated enough interest in this nerd-topic for me to add in my two cents. My uneducated hypothesis, confirmed through confirmation bias :) was the video quality seen must largely depend on the quality and match of the components involved. A simple example.... two different branded DVD players will give two different picture qualities on the same TV even though their 'stats' are the same and they use the same connection (HDMI or Component). So it is not just a question of which connection is better... it would be on a case by case basis. The technical design and match of the equipment used will be the determination of picture quality - not necessarily the connection type. But of course, one connection type will be better, but it is solely dependent on how the equipment functions together.
Here is an excerpt:
"Digital to digital" conversion
is no more a guarantee of signal quality than "digital to analog," and
in practice may be substantially worse. Whether it's better or worse
will depend upon the circuitry involved--and that is something which
isn't usually practical to figure out. As a general rule, with consumer
equipment, one simply doesn't know how signals are processed, and one
doesn't know how that processing varies by input. Analog and digital
inputs must either be scaled through separate circuits, or one must be
converted to the other to use the same scaler. How is that done? In
general, you won't find an answer to that anywhere in your instruction
manual, and even if you did, it'd be hard to judge which is the better
scaler without viewing the actual video output. It's fair to say, in
general, that even in very high-end consumer gear, the quality of
circuits for signal processing and scaling is quite variable.
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Very true, Fatty, and I suppose I must qualify my argument somehwhat: at first, I was more-or-less arguing that for most purposes, in terms of video quality, HDMI doesn't usually offer anything over component. I was making the general case. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that on every 360/TV combination in particular, the two look equivalent. So it's possible that there is something to what Bunky's saying, but please do excuse me for being skeptical - I know how there is a general trend to think that "digital means higher quality" and people can often see (or hear) "improvements" that aren't there, so that's my initial reaction when someone says they can tell the difference in matters such as these. I reserve the right to be wrong, however. :)
Also, as I noted before, others online have not noticed much of a difference.
Jack - doing the test on your TV sounds like a good idea (I wish I had an Elite handy to try on mine), but if you really want to eliminate any biases (even subconscious ones) and shut me up for good, you should do a blinded test: hook it up one way, then bring guests in to play/watch/whatever without telling them which hookup is in effect. Then have them leave the room, hook it up the other way, and repeat. Then ask them which looks better. Actually doing it more than one of each way is probably even better but hey, you don't have all day, I realize. Also even better would be to limit or eliminate any interaction with the test audience so as not to give off (again, even subconsciously) any signals as to which is in effect. Also, make sure that when you hook both connectors up, they are connected in the same mode (preferably 1080p for both if your TV supports it).
It's actually worth pointing out that even if there is a difference, it could be on the TV's end as Fatty sort of indicates. So in the end, I think it boils down to your specific equipment as to which one is better.
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I'm off to pick up my XB 360 with HDMI (not Elite) I too am curious to see if there is a difference.
My report will be two pages double spaced with a 12 point font. As soon as I have it copyrighted and published, I will post my finding. The factual nature of it will be subject to Bert's uncontrollable nature to shot holes in it.
This may take a while as I will probably be more interested in using it to play games.
I look forward to more conclusive evidence, if for nothing else to be able to tag team Bert.
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Gee, sounds like you're ready to do some unbiased reporting, Creeko!
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*ahem*
Well, I've been playing on my 360 all morning, and although I have no
HDMI to compare to, I think I may have discovered some issues that...
erm... uh... possibly.... confirm some of what Bunky is saying.
On the Xbox Dashboard, everything looks amazing. And downloaded
video from the media tab looks great, too. But for some reason, with
the two games that I've tried so far, the black levels don't look right
and the whole game looks a bit washed out. What's weird is I never
experienced any of this on my 42" rear projection set. I haven't
tried tweaking the settings on the TV too much yet but it's kind of
annoying. Now I really wish I could test out an HDMI-enabled 360 to
see if it looks any better.
So I don't know if it's the component video connection per-se, since the dashboard and other non-gaming video looks great (on par with my HDMI-connected PC). But something appears to be rotten in Denmark...
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Just to clarify, I have played both a regular XBOX 360 and Elite on both televisions in question. In addition, my gamer nephews and nieces have played both as well, and have noticed a considerable differrence as well. I don't think it's a difference in the consoles, but the HDMI connection. The televisions in question are 55'' and 42''.
In addition, I am not staying at Motel 6 and comparing their television to mine. The hotels I referenced are the JW Marriott and Ritz Carlton. They have flat screen televisions with the HDMI and standard componet connection options. I have a travel pack for my XBOX that I keep a standard high def cable in so I can leave my cables hooked to my home television and just take the unit.
I will play a couple rounds of both Halo and Gears on Live today with each cable. In addition, my husband has a non-gamer friend coming over tonight, and I will conduct a blinded "Ross" test.
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I just played one round of Halo 3 on Live with the standard HD component. I don't even need to play a round with the HDMI in Gears, or any other game for that matter, to know HDMI kicks ASS over the standard component cable. Post all the arguements and articles you like.
F Bert!
I am standing by my arguement! Zilla, I look forward to you declaring me the winner.
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Bunky said:
I have a travel pack for my XBOX that I keep a standard high def cable in so I can leave my cables hooked to my home television and just take the unit.
mmmmm..... keep talking baby.... I am almost there... Damn Bunks..... is it me or are you getting all us guys fired up with all that talk? You took me down to my business socks with your last few posts.
Plus, toe to toe with Ross?? Well, this is interesting. I think this quote is best for the rest of us....
"Any man don't want to get killed, better clear on out the back."
Did I just see a tumbleweed go by???
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Fatty, I haven't met a guy who has intimidated me yet. I am the youngest of 5, with 3 older brothers. I can hold my own. Anyhow, even if I do disagree with Ross, I respect the fact he always holds his ground regardless of what anyone else thinks. It is also fun to read!
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Nor should you (or anyone) feel intimidated. I'm only interested in finding out the truth, here. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it.
Anyway, I'm still not at all convinced it's the cable/hookup. Here's why (click for larger view):
The bar across the top of screen that says "Call It" is in a deep, dark black, comparable to what other sources plugged in to this TV produce. However, the surrounding blacks above that bar, and on the left and right sides of the picture are decidedly washed out, and are more akin to what I experience in-game.
This seems to indicate to me that the component cabling is capable of the desired picture quality, but for some reason, the Xbox is rendering certain things incorrectly. I have some more research to do to see if this is just me. This effect may be reproducible for any of you (I'm in the Theater viewing a
screenshot) but I'm not claiming that this picture is indicative of the
actual problem, it's just an easy way for me to sort of point out that
I can get a good picture out of the component cable.
Also, I haven't tried switching to 720p mode to see if it's better. So far, both 1080i and 1080p look like this.
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Okay, I'm a retard. Once I spelled it all out above so that any moron (meaning me) could understand it, the problem was obvious: each game has a brightness setting, and the default setting for most games tends to be too bright for my (super bright sweet ass) TV. Once I adjust each game properly, everything looks peachy. Problem solved!
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I thought my picture was pretty sweet until I used the HDMI. It was when I went from the HDMI back to the component cable that the picture wasn't as sweet as I thought!
Maybe if Zilla ever emerges from ZAGNUT, and gets back into real gaming, we can get his opinion. I am curious to hear if he noticed the difference in quality of HDMI versus component cable while playing Rock Band. I am wondering if the colored rectangles that appear on the screen for guitar and drums are brighter with the HDMI.
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HAHAHA - Thats some funny shit! In fact, I was looking at your picture and thinking to myself.... that really does look washed out... like it has too much brightness or not enough contrast. I was wondering if it was some settings :) BUT - that doesn't answer your debate ROSS! It just shows that your settings were off. Now you've got some testing to do!
As far as debating you.... Any ninja here knows that to take on Ross, you have to have a perfectly prepared, skillfully delivered, and fully documented argument. Dude, your friendly debates have footnotes!! And even though we could be right, then you bust out with some
'I submit that what you and your cohorts are most likely experiencing is confirmation bias.'
HAHAHA - Seriously Ross, you could argue with most people, knowing you are completely wrong, and still come out winning. All the while making them feel like a complete dumbass. Its a great skill... and no one likes to feel like a dumbass. So I at least pick the arguments carefully.
Bunky - thanks for pulling it out and measuring with Bert. You certainly got a BIG ONE!! I am sure Bert happily agrees.
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At first blush, after hearing Fatty's testimonial of my prowess, one might assume that I would be feeling pretty sweet right about now. But in actuality, all it means is that it gives everyone one more reason to one throw the evil eye in my direction and to want to take me down.
Even this ninja gets tired sometimes.
I honestly don't care about anything but the truth - in this matter in particular, I've at least been awakened to the idea (by considering my own arguments) that it's possible that there could be a difference between the two Xbox outputs. Even so, as a dutiful skeptic, I cannot be convinced by eyewitness testimony alone and require a stronger standard of evidence. I know this is painfully annoying to most people, but in my experience, this approach has served me extremely well (if you discount the fact that it tends to make people think I'm an asshole).
So in conclusion, my dear Jackasses, I remain open to the possibility of the veracity of Bunky's claim, but as of yet have not encountered sufficient evidence to sway me from the default position.
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My first impression with the component vs. HDMI is that HDMI offers slightly improved picture quality. I first played using component cables and the pic quality was very good. When I switched to HDMI the picture seemed crisper with more contrast.
I might be saying that to justify spending 50€ on the M$ cable. Mofo's make it so if you plug in HDMI you can't use the component cable for an optical audio because the component cable is so damn big it covers the HDMI slot. so if I want to hook up an optic audio cable to an amp in conjunction with the HDMI the only way to do it is with the M$ adapter.
Any way, my TV only has one component/In and one HDMI/In so the component goes to the DVD and the HDMI to the Xbox.
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Creeko hasn't mentioned if he was getting XBOX live or not. I want to make sure he gets the proper welcome should he join! We can even give him a little extra for Fatty!!
By the way, Ross, I haven't congratulated you on the new television. HDMI, or not, it still looks pretty sweet.
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Thanks Bunky!
I have one HDMI slot left open, ready and waiting, in case I am sufficiently convinced that I must sell my current Xbox and buy a new HDMI-capable one.
Creeko, you need to get your ass on Live. You are practically living in a third-world nation, judging by your inability to get onto Jackassery... Xbox Live might be your only lifeline to the outside world.
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I had problems but now I'm rolling with a with a 2kb/s (5kb/s max) Wi Max broadband connection, and a wireless home network. If I don't sign up for live, it will probably be because I wont take full advantage of it (or, in other words, busy doing other stuff)
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Do you mean 200Kbps? Or perhaps 2Mbps? Because 2kbps is about the modem speed I was enjoying circa 1990 on my parents' 386 SX 16Mhz computer, back in the good old BBS days. (About the speed of a 2400 baud modem for those of you who remember such things).
If that's really the speed you have, definitely shouldn't try Live. Hell, you shouldn't try the internet, period. Switch to smoke signals - it'll be faster! :)
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Waitaminute... can I hook up my existing 360 by just buying an Xbox HDMI Cable? I assumed you needed a newer Xbox or an Elite or something to do it.
I'm asking because although I am still doubtful of the claims of HDMI superiority, I would be willing to buy one of these and test it out, provided I could return it for a refund if I wasn't satisfied.
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Well now reading this page on Best Buy's site seems to indicate that it won't work... I need some more conclusive evidence...
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I could technically also try to use the Xbox VGA connector on my TV and see how that looks too, as it also supports 1080p. But this is one case where I have heard that VGA tends to not look as good as HDMI, so I don't see much point in the experiment.
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That would be 3.28 Mbps according to the last speed test I conducted. Not the fastest in the world, but it'll get me my porn on time.
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Okay, now you're talking! You were only off by a factor of 1,000. :)
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Back to the original pic: Nice, Bert! Beautiful!
As you were jealous of my initial purchase of the Toshiba, I too was jealous of your new Aquous acquisition, and bought a Mitsubishi 62" LCD (not skinny - it's rear projection, and an '06 model, so I got a killer deal on it). Coming soon: a picture of the new Swerbivision... if the Dish Network guy ever fucking gets here today to install my HD receiver, of course...
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Anyone got a xbox wireless network adapter? I want to link my laptop to my xbox bot its not happening? got any advice on where I can find how to do this?
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Wait, so are you already hooked up wirelessly on your Xbox? If so, in what way are you trying to "link" your laptop and Xbox? What exactly are you trying to accomplish?
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I was sold on it based on this review. Supposedly you can link the windows media player via the wireless network adapter and watch videos/listen to music on your xbox directly from your PC.
When I performed a network test it said something about DL'ing something USB memory stick and plugging it into the xbox or some such which craft.
Oh btw, I am on Live with a one months free subscription, I go by CREEKO73 (who the F else goes by Creeko?)
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Cool, I added you to my friends list (Ramshackleton).
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Re: Roeper's Comcast column - hilarious. The Dish guy scared the shit out of me yesterday when he said he wasn't sure I'd get a signal from the HD satellite because of the trees in my/my neighbors' backyard. I had horrible, horrible flashbacks about my previous asinine dealings with Comcast , because no satellite meant cable would have been my only option for HD. But everything turned out OK. *Whew*
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Welcome to XBOX Live! I will send you a friend request and catch you when I am back from Hawaii at the end of next week!
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Ross said: "Wait, so are you already hooked up wirelessly on your Xbox? If so, in
what way are you trying to "link" your laptop and Xbox? What exactly
are you trying to accomplish?"
With the wireless network adapter, you can use the xbox as a media extender but you need to have XP Media Center installed on you PC, which I don't have and I'm trying to figure out how I can DL it and install it on my laptop.
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You'll have to get a cracked copy.... which I don't necessarily recommend. You have your old Xbox for movies... why monkey with Windows MC? You have this on your old Xbox anyway. Or you should...... Maybe you can link up with your old box for media files. Didn't you get your old box to stream files from your computer?
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Looks interesting. May need some further checking out.
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Actually I was talking to a buddy at work and he says he never got tversity to work very well with his 360 - but he says he did get video streaming to his xbox using the standard Windows Media Player 11 - you don't need media center (even though the icon on the xbox seems to indicate that you do) - you just have to upgrade your version of media player on your PC.
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I've got v11
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Works like a charm!
No more getting my lazy ass of the sofa to plug my laptop into the TV, and I can use the XB controller as a remote. Full on Sweet!
Some codec problems with some videos - Jimmy Neutron Boy Genius and The little Mermaid (I got a 4 year old, what can I say, besides Jimmy Neutron is cool!)
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