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Entered on: November 4, 2004 12:00 AM by Swerb
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Here's a bit of gerrymandering I wouldn't complain about.
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PHOTO 147 - 44 Comments
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I wouldn't mind at this point... I told Roche (on the phone, of course) that I can no longer in good conscience call myself a patriot. I don't know if that's really true - after all, I'm willing to fight to preserve my ideal of America, what I believe the founding fathers had in mind - but clearly the public has very little interest in that version. So I have no interest in defending their version of America.
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I struggle with the same dilemna also Ross. The current version of America I can no longer identify with nor support. However, I am gathering steam in my efforts to be a true patriot to defend the country against all enemies foreign and domestic and to return the country to the course set by our enlightened founding fathers. It's our duty and being a patriot isn't easy. It requires blood, sweat, and tears. At least we probably won't have to make the same sacrifices the early Americans made against the British.
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I was just noticing the above picture and remarking to myself that you could shear off the bottom 3/4 of Illinois and give it to Jesus land, if not only for the sake of homogeneity, but because there are counties south of here where Alan Keyes actually WON. If you don't know who he is, take a look at some headlines:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=alan+key
es&btnG=Search+News
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Misinformed it is. I feel the need to provide a modicum of debunking on some particularly irresponsible writing:
George Washington never said he was a Christian. Not once. He went to church irregularly and seemed pretty indifferent. Like other founding fathers (some of whom would admit to not being Christians), he made positive remarks about Jesus, but this doesn't mean he believed in his divinity, which is the cornerstone of Christianity.
This sentence is the real gem:
When Democrats and secularists criticize Keyes for bringing his faith in Jesus into politics, in reality, they are really attacking George Washington, John Adams, James Madison, Abraham Lincoln, Andrew Johnson, and so many other great leaders who once served this awesome country.
What a crock of shit! I dont' know much about Andrew Johnson (or much care), but James Madison was about the least dogmatically religious president we've ever had, and as the primary author of the Constitution, it is mainly he that we have to thank for it being a secular document! That is just a blatant lie on their part to suggest that Madison was in any way similar to Alan Keyes, who essentially supports a theocratic state. Madison was the exact opposite.
Furthermore, Abraham Lincoln was no Christian either, by any reasonable definition, and I defy anyone to produce credible evidence to the contrary. A quick Google search turns up this page which is good about explaining Washington and Lincoln's beliefs.
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"Again, the Bible does not contradict itself"
You should send him a link to that Skeptics Annotated Bible.
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Hell, even Ned Flanders admits that the Bible contradicts itself. What's frightening is that this guy likely represents the beliefs of a lot of Americans - and now that those people resulted in Bush's re-election, all the attention and debate will only encourage them to be more misinformed and unreasonable.
Not to get too far off topic, but Bert, in an earlier discussion you said Noam Chomsky was a tard... I haven't read any of his stuff, but I know he's immensely popular amongst the anti-Bush contingent. Just curious as to why you think he's a moron.
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One reason is because he equates collateral damage with terrorism. He fails to see the difference between unintentional deaths in times of war and intentionally beheading someone, for instance.
He's basically a militant pacifist whose idealism is just as intense as the neocons' except on the opposite side of the political spectrum. In my view, his stand is morally bankrupt: for instance, if you are unwilling even consider torturing a suspect that you strongly suspect to be guilty of planting a bomb that will kill thousands, you have your head up your ass.
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Got this e-mailed to me, thought you all would enjoy it.
Dear Red States:
We've decided we're leaving. We intend to form our own country, and we're taking the other Blue States with us. In case you aren't aware, that includes California , Hawaii , Oregon , Washington , Minnesota , Wisconsin , Michigan , Illinois and all the Northeast. We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation, and especially to the people of the new country of New California.
To sum up briefly: You get Texas , Oklahoma and all the slave states. We get stem cell research and the best beaches. We get the Statue of Liberty. You get Dollywood. We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom. We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss. We get 85 percent of America 's venture capital and entrepreneurs. You get Alabama . We get two-thirds of the tax revenue, you get to make the red states pay their fair share.
Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian Coalition's, we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of single moms. Please be aware that Nuevo California will be pro-choice and anti-war, and we're going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at once. If you need people to fight, ask your evangelicals. They have kids they're apparently willing to send to their deaths for no purpose, and they don't care if you don't show pictures of their children's caskets coming home. We do wish you success in Iraq , and hope that the WMDs turn up, but we're not willing to spend our resources in Bush's Quagmire.
With the Blue States in hand, we will have firm control of 80 percent of the country's fresh water, more than 90 percent of the pineapple and lettuce, 92 percent of the nation's fresh fruit, 95 percent of America's quality wines, 90 percent of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most of the U.S. low-sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus Stanford, Cal Tech and MIT. With the Red States, on the other hand, you will have to cope with 88 percent of all obese Americans (and their projected health care costs), 92 percent of all U.S.mosquitoes, nearly 100 percent of the tornadoes, 90 percent of the hurricanes, 99 percent of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100 percent of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia. We get Hollywood and Yosemite , thank you.
Additionally, 38 percent of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, 62 percent believe life is sacred unless we're discussing the war, the death penalty or gun laws, 44 percent say that evolution is only a theory, 53 percent that Saddam was involved in 9/11 and 61 percent of you crazy bastards believe you are people with higher morals then we lefties.
Finally, we're taking the good pot, too. You can have that dirt weed they grow in Mexico .
Peace out,
Blue States
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Pretty amusing, but I'm not sure what the point is, other than to say "you guys suck". And what's with the "pineapple and lettuce" statistic?
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Did you really write this Nick Nick and are claiming it to be an email?
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It was an e-mail. If I wrote it, it would include West Michigan as part of the red states and wouldn't be called New California.
I agree Ross. It is a bit of a verbal raspberry and not incredibly intellectual at that. But it is amusing.
As far as the "Pineapple and lettuce" statistic... I can only think it is a reference to Hawaii. Don't ask me why though.
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Boy, do I get some zany e-mails to my work address. Check this one out.
I guess it's anti-Democrat but it mostly just comes across as anti-sane.
Bert - Care to take a crack at it? Maybe I should just reply with NickNick's
"Dear Red State" letter? 
Something to think about:
HOW LONG DO WE HAVE?
This is the most interesting thing I've read in a long time. The
sad thing about it, you can see it coming.
I have always heard about this democracy countdown. It is interesting
to see it in print. God help us, not that we deserve it.
How Long Do We Have?
About the time our original thirteen states adopted their
new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor
at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the
Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:
'A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as
a permanent form of government.'
'A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that
voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the
public treasury.'
'From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates
who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result
that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy,
which is always followed by a dictatorship.'
'The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the
beginning of history, has been about 200 years'
'During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through
the following sequence.
1. from bondage to spiritual faith;
2. from spiritual faith to great courage;
3. from courage to liberty;
4. from liberty to abundance;
5. from abundance to complacency;
6. from complacency to apathy;
7. from apathy to dependence;
8. from dependence back into bondage'
Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St.
Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the
2000 Presidential election:
Number of States won by: in 2000
Democrats: 19
Republicans: 29
Square miles of land won by:
Democrats: 580,000
Republicans: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by:
Democrats: 127 million
Republicans: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
Democrats: 13.2
Republicans: 2.1
Professor Olson adds: 'In aggregate, the map of the
territory Republican won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying
citizens of this great country. Democrat territory mostly encompassed
those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off
various forms of government welfare...' Olson believes the United
States is now somewhere between the 'complacency and apathy' phase of
Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of
the nation's population already having reached the 'governmental
dependency' phase.
If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million
criminal invaders called illegal's and they vote, then we can say
goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.
If you are in favor of this, then by all means, delete this message.
If you are not, then pass this along to help everyone realize just how
much is at stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our
freedom.
WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE,
ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE
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How absurd. He's essentially saying that the areas that vote democrat are on welfare? If you cross reference this with NickNick's email, you'll see that that can't be true, because the areas that vote Democrat are the richest, not the poorest. The poorest places, like the deep south, are the Republican strongholds.
Just as with NickNick's email, the author cherry picks favorable statistics. This one uses murder rate, NickNick's uses divorce rate. Both are true, but what do they mean?
But I particularly like this part:
'A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that
voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the
public treasury.'
This is actually an argument to vote Democrat this election, in my mind. If anything, John McCain is promising more money out of the government coffers in the form of overly-generous, non-sustainable tax cuts.
I also like the non-sequitur about illegal immigrants thrown in at the end. Really tips the hand of the author that he's not trying to be objective.
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Ross said:
Just as with NickNick's email, the author cherry picks favorable statistics. This one uses murder rate, NickNick's uses divorce rate. Both are true, but what do they mean?
Everyone can play statistics. Just look at any research topic. Read the numbers one way, it says this, read the numbers the other way, it say this. Both sides play this game and it's one of the biggest things that bug me about politics.
Both e-mails show a tendancy towards exactly the type of thing both groups are critcized for. Democrats have been called snobby, or elitist, recently. I think my e-mail certainly reads as if it's referring to the red states as the backwards states. The republicans tactic has lately been one of fear. This e-mail definitely panders to fear. It helps feed the fear of the lady the stated she wasn't a racist, but that she was afraid the blacks would riot if Obama won.
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Any time I see an email that has quotes from a professor or someone that you're supposed to take as an authority figure, it calls it into question. I wondered if it was real too, but even if not, that doesn't have any bearing on the statements' accuracy.
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Did you receive this email from my step-monster?
She had a habit of forwarding these on to everyone in her address book. I would then follow up by doing the fact checking, and then letting everyone she had included in the email chain know how much horseshit the message was, refuting it with legitimate facts.
It took a few rounds of this but she finally stopped including me. (One other guy also started joining me in refuting her unthinking, perpetuation of these myths.)
I am sure she continues to bother her other friends, poor souls. Of course, they probably share her ultra conservative, neo-Nazi, near racist outlook on life, or just humor her.
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And the nutty political spam continues to pour in! Here's one I got this morning from a customer:
Subject: Fw: What are so unhappy about????
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 21:34:37 -0500
Subject: Long, but, well worth the read
David Letterman wrote this; it's the David we
don't often see...
" As most of you know I am not a President
Bush fan, nor have I ever been, but this is not
about Bush, it is about us, as Americans, and it
seems to hit the mark
'The other day I was reading Newsweek
magazine and came across some Poll data I found
rather hard to believe. It must be true given
the source, right?
The Newsweek poll alleges that 67
percent of Americans are unhappy with the
direction the country is headed and 69 percent of
the country is unhappy with the performance of
the President. In essence 2/3 of the citizenry
just ain't happy and want a change. So being the
knuckle dragger I am, I started thinking, 'What
are we so unhappy about?''
A.. Is it that we have electricity and
running water 24 hours a day, 7 Days a week?
B.. Is our unhappiness the result of
having air conditioning in the summer and heating
in the winter?
C.. Could it be that 95.4 percent of
these unhappy folks have a job?
D.. Maybe it is the ability to walk
into a grocery store at any time and see more
food in moments than Darfur has seen in the last
year?
E.. Maybe it is the ability to drive our
cars and trucks from the Pacific Ocean to the
Atlantic Ocean without having to present
identification papers as we move through each
state?
F.. Or possibly the hundreds of clean
and safe motels we would find along the way that can provide temporary
shelter?
G.. I guess having thousands of
restaurants with varying cuisine from around the
world is just not good enough either.
H. Or could it be that when we wreck
our car, emergency workers show up and provide
services to help all and even send a helicopter
to take you to the hospital.
I.. Perhaps you are one of the 70
percent of Americans who own a home.
J.. You may be upset with knowing that
in the unfortunate case of a fire, a group of
trained firefighters will appear in moments and
use top notch equipment to extinguish the flames,
thus saving you, your family, and your
belongings.
K.. Or if, while at home watching one
of your many flat screen TVs, a burglar or
prowler intrudes, an officer equipped with a gun
and a bullet-proof vest will come to defend you
and your family against attack or loss .
L.. This all in the backdrop of a
neighborhood free of bombs or militias raping and
pillaging the residents. Neighborhoods where
90% of teenagers own cell phones and computers.
M.. How about the complete religious,
social and political freedoms we enjoy that are
the envy of everyone in the world?
Maybe that is what has 67% of you folks
unhappy.
Fact is, we are the largest group of
ungrateful, spoiled brats the world has ever
seen. No wonder the world loves the U.S. , yet
has a great disdain for its citizens. They see
us for what we are. The most blessed people in
the world who do nothing but complain about
what
we don't have, and what we hate about the country
instead of thanking the good Lord we live here.
I know, I know. What about the
president who took us into war and has no plan to
get us out? The president who has a measly 31
percent approval rating? Is this the same
president who guided the nation in the dark days
after 9/11? The president that cut taxes to
bring an economy out of recession? Could this
be the same guy who has been called every name in
the book for succeeding in keeping all the
spoiled ungrateful brats safe from terrorist
attacks? The commander in chief of an
all-volunteer army that is out there defending
you and me?
Did you hear how bad the President is
on the news or talk show? Did this news affect
you so much, make you so unhappy you couldn't
take a look around for yourself and see all the
good things and be glad? Think about
it......are you upset at the President because he
actually caused you personal pain OR is it
because the 'Media' told you he was failing to
kiss your sorry ungrateful behind every day.
Make no mistake about it.
The troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have
volunteered to serve, and in many cases may have
died for your freedom. There is currently no
draft in this country. They didn't have to go.
They are able to refuse to go and end up with
either a ''general'' discharge, an 'other than
honorable'' discharge or, worst case scenario, a
''dishonorable' ' discharge after a few days in
the brig.
So why then the flat-out discontentment
in the minds of 69 percent of Americans?
Say what you want but I blame it on the
media. If it bleeds it leads and they
specialize in bad news. Everybody will watch a
car crash with blood and guts How many will
watch kids selling lemonade at the corner? The
media knows this and media outlets are for- profit
corporations. They offer what sells, and when
criticized, try to defend their actions by
'justifying' them in one way or another Just ask
why they tried to allow a murderer like O.J.
Simpson to write a book about how he didn't kill
his wife, but if he did he would have done it
this way......Insane!
Turn off the TV, burn Newsweek, and use the New
York Times for the bottom of your bird cage.
Then start being grateful for all we have as
country. There is exponentially more good than
bad. We are among the most blessed people on
Earth and should thank God several times a day,
or at least be thankful and appreciative.' 'With
hurricanes, tornados, fires out of control, mud
slides, flooding, severe thunderstorms tearing up
the country from one end to another, and with the
threat of bird flu and terrorist attacks, 'Are we
sure this is a good time to take God out of the
Pledge of Allegiance?'
David Letterman
Please keep this in circulation. There
are so many people who need to read This
A quick google showed this to be a fake. Sometimes attributed to Jay Leno too. The conservatives are going crazy thinking about President Obama! This one is apparently making the claim that we're all whiney cry-babies for not being happy with the endless war in Iraq, the US financial crisis and recession, etc. Good Lord.
In the last few weeks for crappy, anonymous e-mails in my in-box: Republicans: 10 or so, Democrats: 0.
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What I don't get about this is that within the first few sentences, I knew this was not written by David Letterman, as I have watched him enough to know that this is definitely not his style.
So if you're someone who would be swayed by what Letterman had to say, you're probably at least as familiar with him as I am, and ought to recognize this as a fake.
And if you're not familiar enough with him to recognize this as a fake, why would you care about his political views?
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I've always hated this argument. It's right in many ways. We do probably live in the greatest country of the world. We do have quite the rich lifestyle and we do have ample opportunity to have the "american dream."
But that doesn't change the fact that there are things we disagree with, like war and the fact that while I have it great, my brother, who works twice as hard as me, is struggling to keep his home. Or that while we have all of these resteraunts and grocery stores have plethora of food, that doesn't stop the fact that their are children starving in our streets.
Using this argument is like saying, well yes, I have a cancerous growth in my body and I know it's going to kill me in a couple of years, but I don't need to do anything about it because I stll have sex with my wife every night and I still can chew my food.
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Some people are just willing to defend Bush to the ends of the earth. Why is that? Why do they have such loyalty for someone that -- to most of our eyes -- has never earned it? You know if it was a Democrat in office the last 8 years, they'd blame everything and then some on him.
Drives me nuts. I love how the e-mail says we need to stop reading NEWSWEEK and the NY TIMES... yeah, stop letting FACTS influence our opinions! That's what really helps a democracy: ignorance of the people!
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Jackzilla said:
yeah, stop letting FACTS influence our opinions! That's what really helps a democracy: ignorance of the people!
This is why I'm pretty sour on democracy these days... too many morons and ignoramuses have the same political power (a vote) as everyone else.
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I remembered some stuff Plato said about democracy from my college philosophy days and found this snippet. It summarizes Plato's view of politics in democracy:
Democratic self-government does not work, according to Plato, because ordinary people have not learned how to run the ship of state. They are not familiar enough with such things as economics, military strategy, conditions in other countries, or the confusing intricacies of law and ethics. They are also not inclined to acquire such knowledge. The effort and self-discipline required for serious study is not something most people enjoy. In their ignorance they tend to vote for politicians who beguile them with appearances and nebulous talk, and they inevitably find themselves at the mercy of administrations and conditions over which they have no control because they do not understand what is happening around them. They are guided by unreliable emotions more than by careful analysis, and they are lured into adventurous wars and victimized by costly defeats that could have been entirely avoided.
(bold emphasis is mine)
Plato believed that states should be run by "philospher-kings."
How un-American!
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That's what I've always said - institute a competency test as a requisite for voting. Call me an elitist, but I'm not satisfied with my country's fate determined by ignorant, superstitious, gun toting, Budweiser drinkers.
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Here we go again. More crappy political e-mail I got today from an anonymous source:
Pull out of Iraq?!?!
Perhaps the U.S. should pull out of Chicago ?
Body count:
In the last six months:
292 killed (murdered) in Chicago ;
221 killed in Iraq .
Chicago.... Who Runs it:
Senators: Barack Obama & Dick Durbin
Rep: Jesse Jackson Jr.,
Illinois Gov: Rod Blogojevich,
Illinois House leader Mike Madigan,
Illinois Atty. Gen. Lisa Madigan (daughter of Mike),
Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley (son of Mayor Richard J. Daley)
.....our leadership in Illinois .....all Democrats.
Thank you for the combat zone in Chicago .
Of course, they're all blaming each other!
Can't blame Republicans; they're aren't any!
State pension fund $44 Billion in debt, worst in country.
Cook County ( Chicago ) sales tax 10.25% highest in country. (Look 'em up if you want).
Chicago school system rated one of the worst in the country.
This is the political culture that Obama comes from in Illinois . And he's gonna 'fix' Washington politics for us?
Wake Up America !
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Uh, yeah....when in doubt, put everything in a bright red font to strain everyone's eyes. That way they'll have to believe it! Also nothing compels me to take an argument seriously more than misuses of they're/their and strange paragraph structure. Thankfully that guy you linked to took care of the serious arguments.
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I also love it when they say "It's true! Look it up!" or "Google it!" Um. How about a reference? Not that I think an anonymous e-mailer would just pull figures out of his or her ass or anything.
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I forgot where I read that the Republicans are like stalkers: rejecting them only makes them crazier.
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I'm sorry. Did someone forget to tell the rethuglicans that this is a two party system (more, if you count the nameless ones) They had 8 full years to screw up our country and before Bill Clinton, they had another 12. I think it's about time the pendulum swung back to the left a little.
Oh, and a few points against the Iraq/Chicago comparison.
1 - Chicago and Iraq probably have around the same size in population (this I haven't checked, just made it up.)
2 - One death stat equals total citizens, the other is only equal to the casualties of an occupying force.
FUCK STATISTICS!!!
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NickNick said:
2 - One death stat equals total citizens, the other is only equal to the casualties of an occupying force.
Occupying force, exactly. That DOES NOT include so-called 'contractors' (Blackwater et. al.) Officially, the Pentagon doesn't track those numbers. And even if you can find numbers on American contractors, Black Water recruits heavily from South America, Asia, Eastern Europe, basically the entire world.
So, what happens to the 'contractors' when Bush leaves office? Contractors aren't subject to US military law OR orders from the CINC. Bush has successfully begun a publicly-funded holy war in the middle east that will be continued with private funds once he leaves office.
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I'm looking at that e-mail again. It mentions Chicago's school systems as one of the worst in the country (evidence that Obama would be a bad President I guess). I thought I'd check it out by state.
IL - 35th (not great, but higher than MI)
Here's the fun part: #50? Dead last? ARIZONA (McCain!) #46? ALASKA (Palin!) So using the (faulty) logic of the e-mail, McCain and Palin are actually the worst home states. Hilarious shit, throwing numbers around.
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More number crunching for fun: Using the Smartest State list, Obama won 16 (twice as many as McCain) of the top 25 smartest states. Of the last 25, Obama 12, McCain 13. More impressive: Obama won 9/10 of the Top 10 smartest states, McCain won 6/10 of the dumbest states.
What's all this mean? Not much. Maybe I should write an e-mail anonymously and get it circulating!
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That's what kills me about the right. They basically like high-school football players; they talk big, and somehow manage to point and laugh at people because they are smart. Where in human history did we make the turn toward 'stupid = good'?
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The analogy is a bit off. High school football players (the ones in your stereotype) don't point and laugh at others because they are smart, but because they are socially inept. Not that I'm justifying the behavior - I'm just saying.
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The Bone said:
The analogy is a bit off. High school football players (the ones in your stereotype) don't point and laugh at others because they are smart, but because they are socially inept. Not that I'm justifying the behavior - I'm just saying.
I was thinking this morning that that was an unfair characterization, but you beat me to the punch. I played high school football, and I know I wasn't like that, but plenty (not all) of the others were. I was referring more to, as you said, 'stereotypical' version of football players.
I'd also like to point out that while you were pointing out my unfair stereotyping, you made a pretty broad generalization yourself. Not everyone who is smart is socially inept. I hope the comment was made ironically to illustrate the point - I'm just saying.
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From my observations, the jock stereotype tends to ridicule those that are socially awkward in high school. They also tend to be the smart ones as well. Of course it's all a big generalization but it seems to me the popular kids have a tendency to ridicule the unpopular ones. The thing thing that divides them is the "cool factor" which I tend to associate with social finesse.
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