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From: Ross Entered on: March 3, 2003 4:43 PM
Are you on the Zone, too? Or is it just after talking to Willy you found out that your diet was similar to it? Are you on the "Bone Zone"?     I had the calorie/muscle problem when I was doing the Body for Life (or Bill Phillips, as we called it before it had a name). I lost a ton of fat, but also at the expense of muscle. I'm still worried about not getting enough calories, as I probably only get about 1300-1500 per day.     But after talking to my dad about this issue, his idea was that since creatine is a key component in building muscle, and most muscular people get their creatine from beef, I'm not getting much on the Zone since beef isn't something I eat much of and poultry doesn't have much creatine in it. So I'm taking creatine again. I just started, so I'll give reports on my progress.     One thing is for sure: Big Fatty and cruises don't mix. Already drinking Pepsi on the Zone, any gains achieved are sure to be obliterated.     To borrow and cannabalize a line from the movie Friday:     "You got peanut butter, no jelly! Ham, no burger! You got Will, no power!"
From: The Bone Entered on: March 3, 2003 11:09 PM
I was eating similar to the Zone but I had no problem with potatoes as things of this nature. Now, I'm focused on the whole insulin stabilization idea.     As for creatine, the body produces it and it is present in fish and poultry. I'm not really certain how much is needed. It really doesn't build muscle directly. It combines with ADP to form ATP which fuels your muscles and gives them energy to work. I took it for 4 months and got really stong though.     I weigh 5 lbs less today than I did just over a week ago when I started the Zone. I can't say what I lost. I suspect a little water and a little fat. I was actually stronger today so I'm hoping I didn't lose muscle. I'm shooting for 1 to 2 lbs a week. Anything more and you'll lose muscle.     Big Fatty would be sweet if he could muster up some resolve and stick to the Zone and workout. Unfortunately, we'll probably never see it.
From: Ross Entered on: March 4, 2003 12:32 PM
I lost 6 lbs in my first month of doing the Zone, and I wasn't being terribly strict. I cheated about 4 or 5 full days during that time, and some of my other meals - lunch, especially - were not completely Zone-favorable. I also spend 4 days, 3 nights a week in St. Louis, so the days I travel back to Chicago I don't have time for a workout. So we're talking 5 workouts a week, and probably 18/21 Zone favorable meals. Luckily I stay in extended-stay hotels that have a small kitchen so I just buy groceries at the beginning of the week. You're right about enough vegetables though. I ate 24 spears of asparagus and a big ass spinach salad last night, and BARELY got enough carbs from it all - but it was hard as hell to choke it all down.     But I definitely have lost fat - the pictures don't lie. I'm not posting them here just yet though. :) Even so, I may have fucked up one of the calculations of bodyfat, because my body fat is either the same or slightly HIGHER than it was when I started. I don't think I lost muscle, and I definitely lost fat - my waist is a full inch smaller than it was a month ago. So I'm probably just a dumbass.     Regardless, even my modest gains were enough to motivate me to work harder. I'm working harder on weights now though I'm still a weak sonofabitch. Hence, the creatine. Remember the Muscle and Fatness days? Leafing through stacks of porn until it was your turn to lift? I was strong back then....     I just hope John boy can stay motivated. He needs this worse than any of us but he has so many distractions to gum up the works.
From: The Bone Entered on: March 4, 2003 9:34 PM
I was a full pound lighter today than yesterday, even with a poop on deck. I don' t think I lost any weight since yesterday but it cooberates yesterdays assesment that I've lost up to 5 lbs in a week. I bought a shit- ton of salmon, halibut, canned tuna, lamb, and motherfuckin beef. I also bought as many vegetables as i could stand and some apples and oranges. I broke down and bought Kashi Go-Lean cereal. It ain't bad - 8 grams protein, 10 grams of fiber, and 28 grams of carbs. With some skim milk, slivered almonds, and frozen blueberries, it approximately in the zone. I think the fiber slow absorbtion and keeps your insulin in check.     I'd like to see Roche hang in there, but talking to him the other day, he seems like he plans on taking it to the extreme and if he does that, I'm sure he'll burn out and find himself facing a plate of fettuccini alfreado.
From: Ross Entered on: March 5, 2003 10:16 AM
No poultry? I eat enough turkey in a week to feed a small town. I love skim milk, too, and it's pretty much Zone-perfect as-is (except no fat), but it's very dense calorie-wise, so I don't work it into my meals much.     Speaking of Roche, I have decided that the Ides of March is his official date for getting online. He has had a shitty computer that someone has given his family laying around collecting dust for months now, and I am sick of it. I'm going to GR that weekend to take care of a few things, and that's on the list. I'm bringing a full contingent of software, as well as a bag full of spare parts and cables. I don't care what the hell is wrong with that computer, I WILL get it up and running and get him online with a free internet provider, even if it means I'm buying whole new parts out of my own pocket.     In fact, I just signed him up for the internet. He'll have ads on his screen to annoy him, but what do you want for free? I just have to install the software. I also got him a Yahoo Mail account so that we can finally email him things instead of having to call him. After the 16th or so, he'll be at johnroche4@yahoo.com, or alternatively john@jackassery.com, which will forward to yahoo.     And then he can start rebutting disparaging comments himself by getting his ass on Jackassery!
From: The Bone Entered on: March 6, 2003 10:25 PM
I have a bunch of frozen chicken breast and turkey, however chicken sometimes grosses me out.
From: Ross Entered on: March 11, 2003 9:59 AM
I am creating a new web application that will allow me (and others, if interested) to track dietary intake over time. You will be able to enter your protein, carbs, and fat grams per meal into it, and it will record this (and tally up total caloric intake for the day). It will give reports to show your progress over time, you will be able to specify any time periods to get info on.     Also, you will be able to enter your measurements - wrist, waist, weight, at any time and it will calculate your body fat for you and record it. Only thing is, I don't know how Barry Sears does his body fat calculation, and I really dont want to rely on the table in his book to come up with the number. I have to deduce the formula!     I'm thinking about building similar shit to track progress on workouts but let's not get ahead of ourselves, here.
From: BigFatty Entered on: March 11, 2003 3:51 PM
First of all, BigFatty says FUCK YOU to everyone. I was the one that started this Zone fiasco. I've lost 13 pounds over 5 weeks. It has been very strict - with me only going off the zone for 2 days and maybe 5 meals. As far as my vacation goes - I WAS ON VACATION. I ate like a pig and loved every minute of it. For breakfast I had a plate full of bacon AND a plate full of sausage. Dessert? Why yes, I'll have three! All you can eat pizza and cheeseburgers every day. Jack says I was doing 3 Zone diets in one day! The damage - 3 pounds gained. It was worth every pound. I am back happily on the Zone. Exercise is a must for maximum weight loss - even though Spears says otherwise. I am back on the Zone and happy to be there.
From: Ross Entered on: March 12, 2003 10:07 AM
Alright, Fatty, calm down. Perhaps I was a bit harsh on you. After all, who doesn't eat like a pig on vacation? Even I cheated for a couple days here in St. Louis while Heather came out to visit. But I'm rationalizing it by saying that I could use the extra calories for muscle building anyway. :) I'm taking creatine twice a day and lifting every other. I'm definitely seeing results - I'm noticably stronger every time I go to the gym.     I've also thought Sears was a bit underappreciative of exercise. Though it stands to reason: the Zone doesn't have anything to do with exercise, so he's not making any money by touting it. Still, if you did the Zone without doing weights, I figure you're bound to end up with no muscle tone at all after a while.     My diet web application has been in limbo this week but I hope it have it online within the next 2 weeks, at least in a rudimentary fashion.     Still Fatty, you need encouragement, even if it's of the negative variety. I know from what John tells me that your delusions of strictness are nearly boundless, and that you've cheated far more than 5 times. We heard you pouring Pepsi on the phone for crying out loud! Did you count that as a cheat? And last night, John likened you to the Popeye character "Wimpy" because of your mutual affection for hamburgers.
From: BigFatty Entered on: March 12, 2003 3:13 PM
Its true - I love my hamburgers! My favorite is the Wendy's #1 with cheese and no tomato with a Pepsi. No biggy size please. In fact, I found that the Whopper from BK is in fact Zone friendly if you don't mind the extra calories it comes with - you just need to eat half the bun. But at 640 Cal, it is a fatty piece of protein.     I'm looking forward to your site. It sounds like it as potential to be very helpful. Looking forward to the Beta.     Jack is slightly confused on the Zone strategy. He keeps thinking it involves only eating Calzones. He confided in me that he likes the concept, but wonders why he is gaining weight.     I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger TODAY!!
From: Ross Entered on: March 12, 2003 4:34 PM
Well, I did a little research of my own, and it appears that my definition of Zone-Friendly and yours differs considerably, so I'm not taking too much stock in sucking down Whoppers as my key to success. Apparently you forgot the numerous parts of the book where saturated fat is frowned upon.     Regarding Wendy's, you were right about the chili - but that's about it. The Chicken BLT salad is too high in fat and too low in carbs and no amount of finagling dressing (waaay too fatty) or croutons (added fat, bad for you besides) will fix it. The Mandarin chicken salad is okay, but only if you add noodles (bad) and almonds (good) but no dressing (probably intolerable).     So there you have it. The grilled chicken sandwich is okay if you don't eat the bun and eat some fruit or something instead. In fact, their nutritional shit doesn't even add up because if you subtract the bun (31g carbs) from the total 46g carbs for the whole sandwich, you get 15, and the rest of it seems to be coming from tomato and honey mustard, but that doesn't add up either. So something's rotten in Denmark with those sons of bitches.
From: Jackzilla Entered on: March 12, 2003 8:19 PM
Yeah, I apparently don't understand this 'zone diet. I've been eating them sumbitches 3-4 times a day, but the weight ain't coming off. I always liked italian food, so obviously eating calzones all day appealed to me, but I'm afraid it's just too good to be true. What kind of 'zones are you guys eating anyways? I've been picking up the 24-packs from Sam's Club. There's plenty of pepperonis and cheese in them bad boys so I don't know what the problem is. I'm going to give it a few more weeks to take effect. Do you think I should be eating MORE than 4 'zones a day? Maybe I need more sauce...
From: Ross Entered on: March 13, 2003 11:49 PM
Holy shit!     I am in the process of putting together the sweet diet website, and for the hell of it, I decided to add a bunch of links to fast food places' nutritional info pages. And for some reason, I put Taco Bell on there even though I never dreamed of eating it on the Zone. But I looked, and 1 Chicken soft taco is a ZONE PERFECT 2 BLOCKS. That's right, people!     TACO BELL IS ON THE MENU! Check it out:     http://www.tacobell.com/menu/nutrition1.htm
From: The Bone Entered on: March 15, 2003 10:21 AM
I need before and after, photographic proof of Big Fatty's wieght loss. I'm thinking his Wendy's/Burger King modification theory is as fucked up as a football bat. Big Fatty - you lost muscle didn't you? Lets see a body fat composition. Stay stong though. I don't want to bring you down with negativity. Ross does crack me up though.
From: BigFatty Entered on: March 15, 2003 8:38 PM
That's totally gay - Tony just wants to see semi-nude photos of me. As far as muscle loss, I've had none - I had none to lose. I'm just one fat, juicy lump of 98.196% body fat and the rest is my little pecker.
From: Ross Entered on: March 17, 2003 10:27 AM
Well, I didn't mean to be shitty, only amusing (aside from the overestimations of sticking with the diet, for which Will deserves some shit). But, Will should be commended for starting the craze and thereby inspiring Roche and me to undertake similar meaures. It's just that now the learners have become the masters.     "Your powers are weak, old man."
From: Ross Entered on: March 25, 2003 12:15 PM
I've determined that my initial fat loss was my body simply wanting to revert to its natural set point, which for me is around 160-165 lbs. Since then (the last 3 weeks), I've lost very little fat, if any.     It's hard to tell how much I should be focusing on weight lifting and how much on cardio, and therefore how much I should eat. I have decided to put on some muscle while still trying my best at least to not add any fat. So I'm upping my food intake to 18 blocks (1638 cal). I'm still going to do the same frequency of workouts ~5/week, evenly divided between cardio and weights. But I'm not going to sweat it if I'm not getting rid of that ring of fat that seems permanently glued to my belly. I have a feeling that to get ripped abs, something heinously drastic is going to have to occur.     Also, I tried to get one of those new Detour bars the other day at Ballys but their computer was down and the bitch couldn't sell it to me.
From: The Bone Entered on: March 26, 2003 12:50 AM
What the fuck is a Detour bar? Is it something I should want too?
From: Ross Entered on: March 26, 2003 11:29 AM
Roche told me about it the other day, that people in his gym were buzzing about it, and how good it was. Supposedly they taste like Snickers. The stats are: fat 10g (4g sat fat), carbs 26g (9g sugars), protein 30g. They're not "in the zone" but they might be good after a workout, if if you just want more protein. They're getting a big marketing push at my gym too with a big display and shit, and people there were all about them too. They were just too dumb to actually succeed in selling me one. I'm getting one tonight though, even if it means I have to steal it.     Actually, this site has some good info on them:     http://www.wlssuccess.com/detour.htm
From: John Entered on: March 26, 2003 12:48 PM
I would not go as far as to say they taste as good as a snickers bar, but they are tastey for a protein bar. After an intense weight lifting session it could be benaficial to get a higher than zone dose of protein. Anyway, I would recomend it. I agree with Tony's assertion that for heavy weight lifting and cardio the body needs more protein and carbs, this is an easy way to achieve that. With that said I think I will check the detour site.
From: Ross Entered on: March 27, 2003 10:09 AM
I finally had one last night, and yep, they're good. I think they would taste just like Snickers if not for a couple things: they have a little less chocolate, and a little less peanuts. But they are definitely the best tasting protein bars I've ever had. I got another one for my plane ride home tonight where I usually get really hungry between waiting in airports and flying and getting annoyed by sluggish pieces of human cholesterol clogging the airliner's passegerial arteries.     Also, CREATINE RULES!     And there was a good article that the Zone website sent me yesterday about exercise. Check it out:     http://www.zoneperfect.com/Site/content/fitness_det ail.asp?ID=4412
From: Jackzilla Entered on: March 27, 2003 10:23 AM
from Ross: "I think they would taste just like Snickers if not for a couple things: they have a little less chocolate, and a little less peanuts."     Dude! Sounds like you could just eat 2/3's of a Snickers!     Don't deny the Mighty Snickers! In the beginning there was The Snickers, and in the end, so shall it be. The Snickers is the Truth and the Path to Everlasting Joy and Harmony with the world. Deny the Snickers and die alone and confused.     Snickers Really Satisfy (tm).
From: BigFatty Entered on: March 28, 2003 9:47 PM
I read the Zone article - So my take is you eat a Zone snack 45 min before and right after - then eat a meal 2 hours after that. Does that sum it up?
From: Ross Entered on: March 29, 2003 1:18 PM
Yep, I think that's about it. I'm following it now. In fact, it's time for my 2 hour meal...
From: Jackzilla Entered on: April 9, 2003 1:16 AM
I don't know how you guys are gonna lose any weight with 2-hour meals. That's a long ass time to be eating if you ask me!
From: Ross Entered on: April 16, 2003 3:48 PM
There hasn't been much talk of the Zone lately, but I've still been trying to stick to it. My mom was here last weekend and I ate like a hog, though I'd like to think the damage was mitigated some by the tremendous amount of walking we did. Anyway, I have been negligent in charting my progress, and somewhat fearful that I wouldn't be doing as well as I'd hoped. I still haven't weighed myself even though my primary goal isn't weight loss - so I took pictures. I'm not altogether displeased with the way things are going, but I need to lose my fat off my gut. Below is a before/after shot. Sorry Will, I've got pants on in the shots! (sorry, couldn't resist):     http://rossjohnson.org/images/RossBeforeAfter1.jpg
From: Jackzilla Entered on: April 16, 2003 4:56 PM
WHY!? WHY DID I CLICK!?     Image be gone!!! Image be gone!!!     (Sorry, couldn't resist)
From: Ross Entered on: April 16, 2003 5:05 PM
I don't know why you clicked, Jack. I TOLD you I had pants on. I don't want to disappoint my fans, but there's only so far I'll go when posting pictures of myself on the Internet....
From: BigFatty Entered on: April 16, 2003 6:14 PM
Dude -Why do you have pants on? I like the posing! Those pics might make it around on a few gay websites. I wouldn't be surprised if guys in your neighborhood (boy-town) start looking at you with familiarity.
From: The Bone Entered on: April 16, 2003 7:10 PM
Bert. Sweet progress. How come, though, the poses aren't the same? I think it's misleading. In Jan you just sit there with a dumb grin like you've been lobotomized. In April you are flexing like Mr. Olympia. I could take two photos right now just like that and show a little progress. Anyway, it is obvious you made progress and you're looking sweet in a non Gay sense. You just need to work on the tan.
From: Ross Entered on: April 16, 2003 7:39 PM
You're right, they are misleading. However, pictures of me flexing from January are so embarassing that I opted for the lobomoty picture as the least of all evils. You're right though. I obviously did the typical before/after trick where you pick the shittiest possible pose for "before" and the best for "after". That one was the best of the three I took.     I do need a tan... but it's kind of a lost cause. I've never gotten a tan naturally, to my knowledge. The best I've done is charred myself badly and after it healed, I was a bit darker than before. Maybe I should look into some kind of tan-in-a-can product...     Anyway, Roche has talked me into doing the treadmill instead of my old standby, the elliptical machine. I did it yesterday and my legs are in quite a bit of pain. Obviously I'm not in running shape. Maybe once my legs can keep up with my heart/lungs I'll get some abs.
From: The Bone Entered on: April 16, 2003 9:21 PM
Roche is right. The elliptical machine doesn't do anything. The treadmill does lots of shit. And , If I really wanted to lose weight quick I would run outside. It's painful and boring but it burns calories like a mo fo. For the monotony of the treadmill I usually do 3 min at 6mph then 2 min at 9mph. I alternate until I've done 30 minutes, unless I'm lazy, then I only do 20min.
From: Ross Entered on: April 17, 2003 10:03 AM
The Zone website sent me an article on Syndrome X. Roche - do you still think you have this? The article is interesting:     http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/living/Healtholo gy/HO_syndrome_x.html
From: Ross Entered on: April 19, 2003 9:47 AM
Even though Jack and Will are not interested in (and like to scoff at) such things, Roche and Bone and I are still trying to take care of ourselves.     My latest news is that I had set a goal to have my waist (at the bellybutton) down to 32.5" by the end of April. I took my measurements yesterday for the first time in over a month and I weigh less than I have in 10 years - I was 159.5 lbs. And I hit my target of 32.5" on the gut. Thus, according to the Zone website body fat calculator, I am at 14% body fat. According to the measurements, my lean body mass is 138, which is roughly the same as it was when my body fat was 16%. Still, I think I have gained some muscle so I don't think the calculator is 100% accurate.     Of course, now I'm at my girlfriend's family's house and I'm about to forced into eating some eggs and bacon for breakfast...
From: The Bone Entered on: April 19, 2003 1:28 PM
I need to get a little more strict with my eating habits. I've been sick all week and missed workouts and ate ice cream 3 nights in a row for dinner. I need to take before/after pictures and set a goal to get motivated. Right now I'm at 14% bodyfat, but it could be better. I'd like to get down to 10%. I really don't care what I weigh though. I guess 190 - 195 should be about right. I really should take a more scientific aproach and keep a log.     Basically, I have the nutritional style of Fatty with just a little more workout powers, but thats going to change.
From: The Bone Entered on: April 28, 2003 1:19 PM
I just recieved a Fat report from Big Fatty. Upon arriving in California he has already gone to town of Fatburgers and In and Out Burgers. Also a little Ice Cream on the side. He still claims he is on the Zone but just on vacation, which I guess is his excuse everytime he goes buck wild. I'm only posting this so his friends will be motivated to implement the Fatty Intervention when he gets back.
From: Ross Entered on: April 28, 2003 2:42 PM
Alright, enough is enough! Not what Fatty is eating - I couldn't care less - but at his insistence that he's still on the Zone. Are you sure he's still claiming this? I thought Roche had pretty much gotten him to admit that he wasn't!     I really don't care what he eats, I just don't want him tainting the good name of the Zone by presenting himself as a model practitioner. Even people who REALLY ARE on the Zone cheat sometimes, and I even read a Zone newsletter recently talking specifically about cheating on vacation. But it didn't involve gorging yourself with crap at every turn.     "I'll glady pay you Tuesday for a double whopper with cheese today!" - Will Heiss
From: John Entered on: April 30, 2003 1:18 PM
I just got back from the doctor's office and could not be happier. The zone is in effect. Let me start by giving you guy's some raw data to chew on.     Blood preasure was 160/112 - now 138/88   total cholesterol was 306 - now 137   triglycerides was 446 - now 149   LDL cholesterol was 189 - now 76   wieght 2 months ago was 228- now 202     Needless to say, my doctor was shocked by the dramatic results I've achieved. All these levels are not only within normal but as my doctor said " are quite healthy". She said if I keep this up I can probably come off my meds in a couple of months. These results have definitely renewed my conviction to stay on the zone. Hearing this will hopefully encourage Fatty to get back on the zone when he returns.
From: Ross Entered on: April 30, 2003 1:22 PM
Holy shit, congrats, Johnny! Your cholesterol is incredibly low especially compared to what it was. I wouldn't be so sure that you're as genetically bad off as you think you are. After all, my dad couldn't lower his cholesterol that fast and you know how hard core he is. I will have to let him know what you achieved. I'm sure he'll have something interesting to say. Nice work, my friend.
From: John Entered on: April 30, 2003 2:25 PM
Thanks Bert, Nothing can bring me down today, not even the mention of my suave on the town gear.
From: The Bone Entered on: May 5, 2003 7:21 PM
Here's a sweet 20 min cardio workout I did today on the treadmill.   0-3 min:6mph, 0% incline   3-5 min:6mph, 4% incline   5-8 min:6.5mph, 0% incline   8-10 min: 6.5mph, 4% incline   10-13 min: 7mph, 0% incline   13-15 min: 7mph, 4% incline   15-18 min: 7.5 mph, 0% incline   18-20 mph: 7.5 mph, 4% incline     It's an asskicker but my weak mind can't take prolonged periods of cardio so this helps. Adjust the speed for your fitness level.
From: Ross Entered on: May 5, 2003 8:44 PM
Damn... I think I could start that at 4 mph and MAYBE finish. But I might have to try it... I'm doing cardio tomorrow. I'll give a report on my results.     Also on the subject of workouts, I have finally managed to do 10+ pullups. I have forsaken the lat pulldowns in favor of assisted pullups, and now I've finally stopped subtracting weight from my bodyweight. Last time I tried I could do 12. When I started doing them, I don't think I could do more than a few.
From: The Bone Entered on: May 5, 2003 9:32 PM
Pullups are a particularly difficult excercise for almost everyone. About 2 yrs ago, I vowed that I would make them my forte. I slowly built up to roughly 3-4 sets of 10. My max was 22 a few months ago. I've slacked a bit lately though. 12 is pretty sweet compared to the average human. Just keep it up. As a measure of human performance, pullups are up there with the benchpress.     I've refocused my Bone Zone efforts. My inspiration was Roche's impressive results. Hopefully one day I'll be sweet enough to kick Morpheus/Neo's ass.
From: Ross Entered on: May 6, 2003 7:20 PM
I just got back from cardio and I'm the first to admit it: I'm a pussy. I could only run for 5 minutes before my puny calves were whining beyond all reason. I had to crap out in favor of an extended elliptical session.     I need to do something about this, I think I need to fortify myself with calf raises for a bit and try again. I wasn't even slightly winded, but my "chickens" are rebelling against me.
From: The Bone Entered on: May 6, 2003 9:18 PM
Bert, I hate running as much as the next man. The problem is there are only 2 sweet cardio workouts in the world. #1 running #2 swimming (and by swimming I don't mean Fatty style of bobbing around like a floating turd, I mean swim team style) I'm also a fan of a brisk walk uphill on the treadmill. That'll get your calves up to speed in no time.     I'm trying to visit GR at the end of May. Maybe you, me, Roche, and Fatty (unlikely), can go for an old fashioned run around Reed's Lake.
From: Ross Entered on: May 6, 2003 9:25 PM
If you do come to GR, I will train for the run. :) But only if we find Del Monte Fruit Pie so you can make him puke again.     I will try the inclined walk on the treadmill. Good idea. I can't stand having such wimpy legs.     Back to the pullups, though. I have decided to make this my new personal goal. I want to do 20 by June 15. I don't know if that's unrealistic or not. I originally had my goal of 10 by June 8, which was way too easy, so now I'm going for something more aggressive.
From: John Entered on: May 6, 2003 9:46 PM
I too find that my "chickens" rebel against me. For cardio today, I went on an old fashioned run (not around Reed's Lake) around my apartments and a church. It was even shittier than the treadmill but I fought through it. Apon reading that the Bone wants to do a run around Reed's Lake, I feel I must be in shape to complete the run. I am going to train hard for the end of the month in the hope that I won't suck. I can't wait.
From: Swerb Entered on: May 7, 2003 10:43 PM
I just wanted to point out to Fatty that I tried the new burger at Checkers yesterday: The BBQ bacon double cheeseburger with beer-battered onions on it. 2 for 4 bucks. I only ordered one, paid for my order, thought I was overcharged, got home and realized there were TWO of those motherfuckers in the bag. After a couple of beers at the bar, the second one went down real smooth at 2 a.m. (nuked it) while I watched Family Guy on DVD.     Sorry, this is the only way I can contribute to the Muscle and Fatness conversation.
From: The Bone Entered on: May 12, 2003 7:42 PM
My gym just got a blood pressure machine so I gave it a whirl. My bood pressure was 123/70 and my heart rate was 49 beats/min. I also had the same results on Saturday as well. I don't have a full grasp of what this means, however, it fits in the healthy range posted on the machine. As soon as I get my Tanita scale, I'll really be able to monitor my fitness.
From: Ross Entered on: May 12, 2003 8:19 PM
Holy shit - 49 beats/min is very impressive, from my limited knowledge of such things. I don't know shit about blood pressure though, no matter how many times Roche explains it to my dumb ass...
From: John Entered on: May 12, 2003 11:18 PM
You are in sweet condition is what it means. Your blood pressure is low and your heart rate is that of an athelete. You are in peak physical condition, what one might refer to as the pinnacle of human perfection.
From: BigFatty Entered on: May 12, 2003 11:23 PM
According to expert reports, many that I have in fact read, the Bone's Blood pressure results indicate that he is a perfect asshole. Numbers don't lie BABY!     What was that saying that was used in our arguements for a period? It was used to add creditability to ones argruements... and I hated hearing it. Oh ya.... "Well scientists have done studies....." The Bone used that a lot and I got sick of it. One time he went on about these "studies" and I had to interject "None that you've read!" I think we all were using that phrase like we were all up on the latest scientific literature on a mirad of subjects. The only scientific literature we were experts on at the time was frickin PORN.     Oh and one more thing Bone. This link:http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/docs/EXTPAINT.HTM is part of a Navy manual instructing HOW TO PAINT CAMOFLAGE! Asshole - you knew I was right, it just took a decade to finally look it up!
From: BigFatty Entered on: May 12, 2003 11:31 PM
Swerb - Checkers is the Shit! I wanted to try those burgers, but I kept getting side-tracked by other offerings on the menu. I'm making my way towards those tasties! My time in San Diego was well spent sampling various cheeseburgers on the West Coast. I very well should write a book titled "BigFatty is your cheeseburger host, from coast to coast!" My fav in Cali is In and Out Burger. Their menu is so simple it is art. Hamburger, Cheeseburger, Double Cheese, Fires, Pop, Shakes. This is a serious burger place, thats all they do! The Bone has been here. He'll testify to the other reason for the name, In and out! If you have not been there - make it a point!
From: John Entered on: May 12, 2003 11:43 PM
"None that you've read" is a great quote from the past. I don't think this is on jackassery, maybe you should add it Fatty.
From: The Bone Entered on: May 12, 2003 11:52 PM
Hey Fat Boy, how many camoflage ships have you seen in the Navy inventory? None, at least not in the sense of camoflage you are thinking of. One color is what they call camoflage - haze gray.     In and Out is a tasty burger. None of the fancy, gimmicky bullshit. Scientific studies have shown that it will make you shit real bad within an hour of eating it though.
From: BigFatty Entered on: May 13, 2003 12:23 AM
Thats one study I know you have participated in. Me too. It takes exactly 32 minutes after an In and Out Double Double until a furious shitting hits the fan. So plan accordingly!
From: Swerb Entered on: May 13, 2003 11:46 PM
Hmmm... anybody know if there's an In and Out Burger in Las Vegas? I'm going to be there this weekend.     By the way, Fatty, hit Checkers tonight, and was super bummed that the bbq bacon double cheese with beer-battered onions was GONE. Had to settle for the plain ol' double champ with cheese. It's brewing right now...
From: The Bone Entered on: May 14, 2003 2:05 AM
Sure is. Here's their website.   http://www.in-n-out.com/
From: Ross Entered on: May 14, 2003 10:31 AM
Swerb, what happened to you, man? You used to eat at least semi-healthy, didn't you? Are you even working out anymore? Are you just relying on fiber overdoses to clean all that rotten carcass out of your system? Are you still eating bacon in your corn flakes, on your apple pie, and in your milkshakes? Really, I'm not a health snob, you've seen me eat like an asshole plenty of times... however, I don't make it any kind of rule or anything, but I eat red meat very infrequently. I mean "I do love the taste of a good burger" as much as the next guy (well, maybe not quite as much as Trans Fatty) but quite frankly if I ate burgers as often as you guys seem to be, I'd be the fattest mofo on here by a wide margin. I guess I'm jealous.
From: John Entered on: May 14, 2003 1:37 PM
I felt the need to mention that in the gym today I finally weighed in at under 200 pounds. My weight was 199.2 to be exact. This for me is a mile stone since it has been over 3 years since I weighed under 200. If I lose just 6 more pounds I will be where I was at the peak of my Body For Life endeavor.     As happy as I am with these results my goal is to drop below Trans Fatty to really show him up. This requires that I lose 12 more pounds. Look out Fatty, I'm coming for you.     Fatty also informed me today that his gut is 4 inches bigger around than my own. So I am now motivated to increase the difference and look better than ever.     Lately I've not been doing cardio as much as I should. In fact I only did it Once last week. My weight continues to drop slowly because of my diet but I need to get back to cardio if I want to speed up the results.
From: Ross Entered on: May 14, 2003 1:41 PM
Nice work, my friend. Though I know I don't really need to tell you this, but be wary of using weight as your primary metric. You and Fatberry Cakes should be using bodyfat as your primary competitive metric, if you ask me.
From: John Entered on: May 14, 2003 2:01 PM
The fact that I am shorter than Fatty with a smaller waist and yet still outweigh him by 12 pounds speaks for itself. I surly have the lower body fat measures and more muscle content.     You are correct Bert, I probably should go by the bodyfat measure of my body not the scale. Still, as I lose more weight I look better which is an indication that my bodyfat is dropping. To check this out I will use the Zone measurement system and get back to you on what my bodyfat is right now.
From: John Entered on: May 14, 2003 2:14 PM
Well I just used the zone claculations to find out my bodfat. My waist is 36in. and my wrist is 7in. which has me at 29in. after subtraction. The chart shows me at   17 percent bodyfat which I think is SWEET!!!     Keep in mind when I started the Zone I was at 28.5 percent bodyfat. I've lost nearly 30 pounds and 7 inches of my waist. This is certainly enough to keep me motivated.
From: Ross Entered on: May 14, 2003 2:12 PM
Holy crap, man... that's pretty damn low. That's about what I was when I started the Zone, and I'm probably not a whole lot lower than that right now. I think the Bone said he is at 14.5% right now - you're only a measely 2.5% off of him if the numbers are right.
From: John Entered on: May 14, 2003 2:16 PM
I know, I can hardly believe it myself, but those are the numbers.
From: The Bone Entered on: May 14, 2003 2:48 PM
I'm finding it extraordinarily difficult to stay as motivated as Roche. My diet is definately not as strict as it needs to be. The only thing that saves me is that I workout on average 5 times a week with 20-30 min of high intesity cardio and weight lifting as well as a couple sessions of long distance paddling, and a surf or spearfishing session to boot.     As soon as I get tickets to GR and a definate date, I'll have the motivation to rachet up my diet skills - for only good natured competition can really motivate me.
From: BigFatty Entered on: May 14, 2003 4:44 PM
Obviously my motivating factors are cheesburgers. I am not being critical here (because I am the most guilty) but it seems that nobody is hitting all phases of the healthy lifestyle. Most of you are hitting 2 of the 3 functions - Zone, Cardio, Weights, with decent results. But why can't we do all of them? I can imagine the synergy created by hitting all 3 areas will further improve our results. I cannot explain why I'm not doing everything - it is a very simple idea. The execution of the healthy style eludes me as well as the motivation. I'll admit Roche's skinny gut is lighting a fire under my butt - but its not hot enough to burn.     Ross I think you are doing the best - but I hear you are neglectful of your chickens.     We know the efforts bring results. Lets all buckle down and start the 'The Style' - Zone, Cardio, and Phillips style weights. I know coming from me, this is hardly motivating - but I need the encouragement to start doing things full-assed. I'm committing to 'The Style' until I leave for France. Who is with me!
From: The Bone Entered on: May 14, 2003 7:21 PM
The big secret here, I think, is long term adherence. Roche is sweet now and is making great progress but how about a year from now. Look at his style during Bill Phillips. He was sweet then too, but what happened. Look at Creeko, during his ab man years, he was super fucking lean. Not no more. I'm not picking on anyone either, I myself was down to 11% bodyfat a year and a half ago. It's up to bullshit level now. The problem is we don't have what it takes for long term sustainability in the "program" department. Bert is the only one, as far as I can tell, to have maintained some discipline for any extended period of time. I don't know what the answer is. Obviously "lifestyle" change is what needs to occur, but how the fuck do you make that happen? Anyone have any ideas.
From: Ross Entered on: May 14, 2003 8:03 PM
And in fairness, yes, I have kept most of my fat off for the long term, but I had a couple things going for me: mostly, it was fear of becoming a lardo again. But I still slacked for long periods of time - though never letting myself fully go. I still worked out semi-regularly and although I pigged out more often, I was still cognizant of what foods I should be eating and never bought bad shit at the grocery store, at least. And I had some guilt about eating really bad shit too. But I'm in the dark as much as anyone as to how to maintain a zone-level healthy lifestyle indefinitely. Even my dad, who has powers that are in my estimation superhuman, doesn't maintain supreme diet/exercise regiments forever (though like me he doesn't lapse into dietary barbarism).     I tend to think the answer is that the only people who do it for a real long time are people who either a) have no jobs and/or responsibilities and therefore a shitload of free time on their hands or b) people whose professions somehow involve fitness so it is conducive and in their best interests to be in sweet shape. That's about the best I can figure.     So yeah, if I didn't mind taking a 75% pay cut, I'd be a personal trainer at Bally's.
From: The Bone Entered on: May 14, 2003 8:24 PM
For the 2 years I've known my wife, she has maintained a sweet diet/excercise lifestyle without a single hiccup. Her powers come from the fact that she actually loves the bland crap she eats. To her tofu,veggies,plain chicken and fish are like cheesburgers, ice cream, and pizza are to us. She's lucky in that respect because her cravings are for shit like eggplant and cucumbers. The outcome of this is that her body fat is in my estimation around 7%. Not really healthy for a girl but definately illustrates the power of extended healthy eating and excercise.     At any rate, hopefully we can be inspired by each other's success and continue our efforts to be sweet since none of us have powers. Personally, I enjoy competiton between the jackasses as it is motivating and the outcome is generally benificial. Plus, I want to see Creeko back to Ab Man style.
From: Ross Entered on: May 14, 2003 9:12 PM
Well, that's it, then. The answer is either mind control, hypnosis, or some other form of brainwashing. That's the only way someone can mistake tofu for ice cream, my friends.
From: Swerb Entered on: May 14, 2003 9:18 PM
Bert: I've been pretty good about my diet, but when I cheat, I cheat Checkers-style. In fact, last night, I ordered a double cheeseburger, unwrapped it, took a couple of bites, and realized there were THREE patties in it. Good god.     Plus, I'm on vacation as of now (leaving for Vegas Thurs. a.m. - bummed I'll miss all your Matrix reactions), so any sense of dieting will most likely go out the window - hence, I must try the In and Out. (By the way, I've eaten bacon, like, twice in the last 3-4 months. It is my weakness, the Swerb Style.)     Besides, my dieting (non-Zone; just eating more veggies, and much less red meat, carbs and junk food) isn't weight-motivated. I can eat pure shit night and day, and not gain a pound. Who knows why. It is a mystery. But when I do that, I just feel like shit; I sleep too long, have no energy, nap frequently, fart day and night and have no motivation to do anything except watch cartoons. I think these differences all stem from our own unique body chemistries, genetics and how we were raised - which brings up another point, namely, would we crave burgers and Taco Bell and pizza and crap so much if our parents didn't feed it to us regularly? I think it may be a generational thing, and may explain why Americans are so much fatter in general than people in other parts of the country. It's junk food culture we're surrounded by, literally.
From: Ross Entered on: May 15, 2003 5:29 PM
It's part of our culture, true, but the problem is rooted deeper than "my parents fed me that shit." You have to ask why, and what's the root of that? A big reason is that America became a very wealthy country around the time that it became cheap (for wealthy countries) to mass-produce food. And mass-produced food needs to be high in preservatives and all kinds of human-created bullshit (like trans fats) in order to be viable in large economies of scale. At the same time, natural selection dictates that the tastiest forms of these dietary abominations are the ones that propogate (like Oreos). Many other countries are smaller, hence don't have distribution issues like America does, and people buy food from local stores which by definition is not mass produced. Believe me, if Europeans had always had the access to Hostess fruit pies and Little Debbie snack cakes, they'd be just as fat as us.     But that leads me to something else: while it is true that Americans are fat hogs by and large, Europeans shouldn't feel sweet. After spending a little bit of time with people there (and not just as a tourist, but in day-to-day situations), it became apparent that they ate like shit, just like we do, but they tend to just eat less. So what you get is skinny yet poorly nourished people instead of the Amercan version, which is fat and poorly nourished. I found on average far fewer Europeans in sweet shape than Americans as well. They might be skinnier on average, but not as many care about being in good shape.
From: John Entered on: May 15, 2003 9:26 PM
It is extremely hard to stick to a zone diet for lengthy periods of time. The Bone is right, when I was on the Body for life I was sweet. I was 6 pounds lighter than I am now and more muscled if I remember.     The only thing I can do is take it day by day and not think about the long term. In much the same way that I avoid drinking alcohol without giving to much thought of the future, I must control my eating. For me it is life and death we are talking about.   If I revert back to my old eating habits I will most likely suffer a heart attack. This is my motivation.
From: Ross Entered on: May 25, 2003 11:25 PM
For Roche's amusement, I have pulled out the old archival tape of video I took of myself while doing the Body for Life the first time, in early 1999. I have compiled a composite picture of many shots of me at my fattest. In these pictures I weighed between 206 and 204. I call them Ultimate Fat Ross. They are hand selected to show the absolute shittiest, fattest pictures of me ever recorded. Enjoy.     http://rossjohnson.org/images/UltimateFatRoss.jpg
From: John Entered on: May 26, 2003 12:45 PM
Looking at those should be enough motivation to keep you on the zone Bert. Those were certainly some fat pics. I believe we refer to it as Muscle and Fatness.     I need to rekindle my motivation and seeing those pics is a strong reminder of where I don't want to be. After the Holiday I am going to dedicate myself to the zone hardcore.
From: BigFatty Entered on: April 10, 2005 6:18 PM
I thought I posted a thread on the reading of Sear's Omega Zone. I read it maybe 2 years ago. It deals with the supplement of Omega 3 Fatty Acids from fish oil. Sears touts that fish oil supplements can improve many aspects of life. I think I spoke to Ross about Sear's claims. They are a bit interesting, but at the time I was not convinced. One of his claims was large doses of fish oil could counter-act most memory disorders. Plus he recommends pharmaceutical grade oil only. His, being the only company to sell such a product.     Well, I just watched this show on Memory on the BBC. They showed a study involving fish oil. It was interesting to say the least. It seems to back up Sear's claims some. One aspect of the accompaning article I found interesting was lab animals with limited Omega 3 intake at certain points during their development, developed high-blood pressure. It makes me wonder if that may be a cause of my HBP.     http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/article s/intelligenceandmemory/omega_three.shtml
From: The Bone Entered on: April 10, 2005 6:23 PM
I've been taking fish oil supplements every day for almost 2 years now. I haven't noticed any improvement in mood or memory but my blood pressure is very low.
From: Ross Entered on: April 10, 2005 7:43 PM
Yes, I've heard from numerous sources that fish oil as a source of Omega 3 is good - the unresolved question is, how much, and what quality? Now with worries over mercury levels in farm-raised fish, I'm off fish oil altogether. If I find an economical and safe way to get with the Sears program, I'll do it though.
From: Ross Entered on: April 19, 2005 4:25 PM
Just read this in the NY Times:     Q. Are fish oil supplements a reliable source of omega-3 fatty acids? If one capsule is beneficial, are two twice as good?     A. A single 1,000-milligram capsule of these supplements offers about the same amount of two valuable fatty acids as four ounces of salmon, and in about the same ratio, said Dr. Sheldon S. Hendler, co-editor of the PDR for Nutritional Supplements, the standard reference in the field. He suggested that one was about the right dose for most people seeking health benefits.     The Italian Gissi-Prevention study, the strongest study of the two fatty acids, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), indicated that about one gram of a combination of the two prevented second heart attacks in men who had already had them, suggesting that the dosage is enough for prevention purposes in the general population, Dr. Hendler said.     In September 2004, the Food and Drug Administration announced that it would allow a qualified health claim for omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids, saying there is suggestive evidence that increased intakes may lower the risk of coronary heart disease.       The agency recommends consuming no more than three grams daily, with no more than two grams from supplements. More than three grams may lead to excessive bleeding in some.     The substances are found naturally in fish oils, particularly those from cold water fish, including salmon, tuna, herring and mackerel.     Taking more than suggested may be considered in certain health situations, Dr. Hendler said, but only with a doctor's advice and monitoring.
From: The Bone Entered on: July 13, 2006 11:29 PM
I'm ressurecting this thread because there's some interesting reading and I think it's from back in the day when we were all Zone crazy. By the way, my blood pressure has gone down since those days. It's now 108/67 and my heart rate was 50 bpm.
From: John Entered on: July 18, 2006 1:53 PM
I need to go Zone crazy in a bad way. My blood pressure is a normal 120/79 but that's because of fancy drugs. I need to get back on the health kick and soon. I'm starting to formulate a plan as we speak and will get back to you guy's if there is anythingsweet to report. BTW, I'm going to start using N.O. Explode and see how that works.
From: The Bone Entered on: July 18, 2006 4:42 PM
Save the dough. N.O. Explode is bullshit. If anything, good old creatine is they way to go. I reccomend EAS Phosphagen elite. Same price as NO Explode but works.
From: John Entered on: July 19, 2006 1:01 AM
Too late my man, already got it. Hope it works better for me.
From: John Entered on: July 20, 2006 1:29 PM
This message is for the Bone. Dude, I had a huge break through workout today. I don't know if it was the N.O. Explode or not and I don't care. Last week I hit 305 on the bench for 1 and it wasn't super easy. Today I blew it out with 315 for 2. I hit the first rep and my spotter said go for another, that was too easy. I went for another and it went up slow but sure with no help. Then I hopped on the shoulder press with free weights and hit 185 for 6. I'm back, plus my energy level was off the hook. N.O. Explode seems to be working for me and fast! Keep in mind guy's I was off for nearly a year and these results are after only being back for a little over a month. If this keeps up fat power Roche will be back in no time!
From: Ross Entered on: July 24, 2006 1:38 PM
I'm freaking jealous... I've been out of the gym forever it seems like.  I will have more to say about that soon...
From: BigFatty Entered on: July 24, 2006 4:28 PM
Sorry Bells, this is for your own good.....  Johnny called me today all excited about his lifting progress - He is now close to benching 340 now, quite the comeback.  He was thinking about throwing way the plan of not going heavy and working out to be healthy.  He is now looking at the 400 pound milestone. He was less excited about telling me of another milestone - Bells hitting 240 pounds, on the scale.  Yep, we can almost  measure Johnny in tons - he is just under 1/8 ton.   Johnny - it would be much more impressive to lose 50-60 pounds and keep it off.  An inshape 35 year old is getting harder to find these days.   Do the 400 without the Fatpower - then we'd all be super impressed!  Gentlemen, I think we need an intervention.
From: Ross Entered on: July 24, 2006 8:26 PM
What kind of retarded shit is this?  Is that how easy it is for Bells to forget shit he learns and re-learns time and again?  Are you fucking kidding me?  Roche, you must not do this!  I personally am fatter than I've been since losing all that weight in the first place - weights fits into my plan to get back down to a good weight but being a powerlifter is the last thing on my mind.
From: The Bone Entered on: July 24, 2006 10:52 PM
I spoke with Bells today. Although I disaprove highly of his workout style, he does have a point. Benching heavy is the only thing that motivates him. At least that's better than not going at all if it eventually leads to varying his workout style. I pointed out to him that lifting the way he does barely affects his fitness levels. I've almost totally revamped my ways since the days of lift to build muscles like a bodybuilder. I use a cyclic approach for one. I'll go through a heavy lifting routine for 8 weeks then I'll lift lighter.and focus more on cardio, then back to heavy. I've used the big 3, bench, squat, deadlift (which Bells is afraid to even try because it's ...Oh my God, NEW!). I do power cleans, I do dumbell lunges which I find to be more heinous than squats, and above all, I do pullups. Curling if for babies. I don't do that shit. On MWF I box and kickbox, followed by weight lifting. On Tues, Thurs I'm doing something totally new - Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I'm actually pissed at myself for not having tried it sooner. It's truly the one fighting style where a smaller guy can farm up a bigger guy.  Here's a link of my instructor Odie Neto . He's a fucking great instructor and his class is fun as fuck. As far as supplements go, I take Omega 3's because it's cheap, good for your heart, and has been shown to improve mood. I just started taking Coenzyme Q10 because of a study I read that its used to treat chronic fatigue syndrome. SInce I've been taking it I've had a lot more energy day to day. I take a multi-vitamin for the hell of it., and ad Vit C for recovery. I'm taking N.O. Explode but it's bullshit - I'm not going to waste my money on that shit anymore. In fact, creatine does very little for me personnaly, if anything, so I'm not going to waste my money on that shit either. That's about it. I've been eating fantastic and I'm at an all time high of 220lbs while maintainingan all time low bodyfat percentage. I'm in the best shape of my life and my build is pure jacked. Sorry for the long read if you got this far but maybe it will serve to motivate others.
From: John Entered on: July 25, 2006 2:30 AM
What sucks is I find lifting light to medium weights to be boring as fuck. Lifting heavy is pure fun, I love the challenge of hefting more weight. Not just on the bench but the squat as well. For now I will go heavy, fuck all you pussies!
From: The Bone Entered on: July 25, 2006 7:10 AM
What about the deadlift? If you don't do it you might as wear a pink halter top to the gym if you want to call yourself a heavy lifter.
From: BigFatty Entered on: July 25, 2006 8:21 PM
That's right!  The deadlift is THE most manly lift to mankind.  Squats are gay, benching is for the common man, but the deadlift is for the macho.  There is nothing to equate to the feeling of bending down and picking up a big pile of weight.  I cannot say I am a heavy lifter on the deadlift, but at least I feel like a man when doing it.    I'll being buying Johnny a pink halter top.  I think I'll need a XXXXXXXXXXXXXL for the 1/8 ton man!  Kidding Johnny, I want to see you live a long and healthy life - even if it means wearing a pink top!
From: Ross Entered on: July 26, 2006 8:36 AM
Bone, that is inspiring.  I am a fat slob (as some forthcoming bachelor party pics will attest, but trust me, you won't be looking much at me) and Heather and I have renewed our intentions to get healthy again.  I would love to get involved in some kind of martial arts again instead of the usual running/elliptical for cardio and weights.  Right now my biggest challenge is time management.  I sort of understand Roche's philosophy that he's only motivated by big weights, but I still poo-poo it.  What should motivate him is the personal challenge of getting into the best shape of his life - not in working toward a useless goal of hefting tremendous weight off his chest and likely injuring himself along the way.    By the way, it's fricking hilarious that this thread is over 3 years old...
From: BigFatty Entered on: July 26, 2006 9:58 AM
It is safe to say that Bone is in the 99th percentile of sweetness.  His dedication and hard work have given him the sweet style.  I'm even embarrassed to say that I have been working out consistently for the last few months.  The 99th percentile of Fatness is still the category I fit in.  I've been sticking to eating small meals 3 hours apart and doing the 3x3 workout that the Bone recommends for an efficient workout.  Walking is now being incorporated in.  The 3x3 workout is frickin sweet.  It is bench, squat, deadlift routine.  By incorporating a 1 minute rest between sets, it becomes  a cardio ass-whooper.  The only thing I have changed in the high-volume phase is to up the reps so I am doing 6 sets of eight.  I like reps.  I love the high-volume portion of the program and I am currently repeating that part.  Bone attests to this, and I can vouch for it…  my arms have gotten huge without touching curls.  Overall, this is a sweet, efficient workout.
From: John Entered on: July 28, 2006 12:02 PM
WHAT!!!!! Squats are gay????? Squats are easily as manly as deadlifts and are considered by most powerlifters to be the best exercise on the planet. I do them every week in a manly fashion with real weight unlike some. As far as the heavy bench, I can't help it if I'm a real man and use man weight which is defined as any weight over 300 pounds. If this means I need a pink top then I'll be a pink top wearing manly man, BITCHES!!!